Podcast: Jillian Michaels - The Catalyst of Challenge

exercise podcast May 25, 2021

Jillian Michaels Bio:

Besides being one of the world’s top fitness experts, Jillian Michaels is an entrepreneur, author, philanthropist and television personality who helped people lose weight on the show “The Biggest Loser” among others.

Jillian also has one of the top fitness apps worldwide and will be announcing an exciting new collaboration that she and I are doing together.

Learn more: Jillian Michaels

Show Outline

1:55 What’s new in Jillian Michaels world.

5:37 What Jillian Michaels thinks is behind the surge in health related products, foods and apps.

6:40 The opportunity we have to use the challenges of the past as a catalyst for personal growth and finding a path forward.

10:12 The potency of mindset and how one can use it during life’s toughest times.

11:33 How to break down the accumulated problems into doable steps.

12:30 Setting yourself up for success with the concept of the learning zone.

12:57 Jillian shares about the time in her life when she wasn’t fit and how she began her own personal transformation.

14:40 We discuss the Biggest Loser show and Jillian’s hard edged, yet caring approach to contestants and the “un-realness” of reality TV.

16:20 How believing in someone before they believe in themselves can lead to profound transformation.

20:11 Jillian reveals what drives her to dedicate so much of her time and energy to creating things that help people improve their health.

25:30 The effects of relentless consistent action.

25:58 Why Jillian sought out Jim to contribute to her app.

26:10 How doing what you love is a great way to serve the world.

27:33 Why Jillian Michaels gives away so much of her work for free and where to find it.

How following authentic excitement and focusing on joy has become Jillian’s “compass” for making better decisions — the virtuous cycle.

29:10 Where Jillian Michaels feels she can have the greatest impact.

30:22 Jillian Michaels and Jim Donovan announce their collaboration for her Jillian’s Fitness App.

37:06 Jim Donovan describes the sleep tracks he created for Jillian Michaels’ Fitness App and how they can help prepare your brain for deep sleep.

40:32 Jim confronts Jillian on her band tee collection leading into an amazing James Hetfield (Metallica) impression and a conversation about the value of combining music and exercise.

46:47 Where you can find Jillian’s app and her socials.

Read the Full Episode:

Jillian Michaels:

It is really an honor to be able to play some small part in someone's journey. I was going through Instagram comments yesterday and this woman was saying how she had come back from breast cancer and she's like, "You don't know, but we did it together."

Jillian Michaels:

And I was thinking to myself like, "I had nothing to do with this. This is all your accomplishment." Even just for her to maybe be working out with me during that time, I was like, "That's such an honor. It means so much to me."

Jim Donovan:

Before we get started, I want to let you know about a resource that I made for you, especially if you've been suffering from things like anxiety and stress, mood problems, brain fog and racing thoughts, sleeplessness, low energy, and even chronic pain.

Jim Donovan:

I've put together a full collection of easy-to-follow tutorials and audio tools that use the power of sound to help you feel better every day, guaranteed. I call it the Donovan Healing Circle, and it's kind of like having your own digital medicine cabinet full of sound supplements.

Jim Donovan:

When you become a subscriber, you'll receive unlimited access to an entire suite of easy-to-follow tutorials, audio tools, research reports, plus my brand new ebook, Whole Life Sound Healing. Just visit donovanhealth.com to get started, that's donovanhealth.com.

Jim Donovan:

Hey there, it's Jim Donovan. Welcome to the show. I am so glad that you're here. We have a very special guest today, it's the amazing Jillian Michaels. Now, besides being one of the world's top fitness experts, Jillian is an entrepreneur, author, philanthropist, and television personality who helped people lose weight on the show The Biggest Loser, among others.

Jim Donovan:

Jillian also has one of the top fitness apps in the entire world, and will be announcing an exciting new collaboration that she and I are doing together. Let's get started.

Jim Donovan:

I'm so geeked out and excited right now. I'm with my new bud, Jillian Michaels. We're brand new buds. I think I can call you a bud. Can I call you a bud yet?

Jillian Michaels:

Please call me a bud.

Jim Donovan:

Jillian and I talked a couple of months ago, she brought me on her podcast. We had a fun time. And a lot of things have transpired since then that I think we're going to get into today. And Jillian, I'm just so grateful that you could spend some time today. I know you got all kinds of stuff going on. So welcome to the show. Nice to have you here.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my gosh. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Jim Donovan:

What's up these days? What are you into right now?

Jillian Michaels:

Moving. We were touching on that a little earlier. In the process of moving. We're going to give Miami a try for a little while.

Jim Donovan:

Oh, cool.

Jillian Michaels:

Try out the Atlantic Ocean instead of the Pacific for a hot minute, see how we like it. Continuing to work on growing the platform that you so kindly lent your skills to, The Fitness App, and trying to really build that out as a one-stop shop for nutrition, fitness, and mindfulness. Right? You shouldn't have to have 10 different apps. It's ridiculous.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

And you should be able to use it anywhere and everywhere. So whether it's the gym or whether it's at home, whether it's an audio workout, whether you're doing yoga or kickboxing, whether you're paleo and keto or vegan or whether you just want meditations or better sleep, you should be able to find it on one platform.

Jillian Michaels:

So my company's been super focused on growing that platform, and adding fantastic talent like yourself. And strategically investing in other brands that excite me, like a supplement company called Alaya Naturals, which was started by a mommy of two who had an autoimmune condition and essentially, I don't want to use the word 'cured' herself.

Jim Donovan:

Right. Sure.

Jillian Michaels:

But made herself significantly better with nutrition and supplementation and then started this company. And I was very passionate about herb. We're diversified in a bunch of stuff, whether it's AQUAhydrate water or Organic Nitro Cold Brew or veggie rice or Thrive Market.

Jillian Michaels:

I really look for companies that I think have an ethos of taking the things we love and making them better. Better for us and better for the planet. And then as I was mentioning to you, I've had a fun little dabble into the world of crypto trading, thanks to all the 28-year-old and 30-year-old boys in my life. [inaudible 00:04:24]

Jillian Michaels:

My little brother is significantly younger. And I just watched the entire market fall out of that, for fun. How do these kids do this, Jim? My God.

Jim Donovan:

I don't know.

Jillian Michaels:

Thank God I have a day job. So anyway, I'm just playing around with that. It's just a fun little... It's like going to Vegas every single day. Every time you look at the thing you're like, "Whoa, I'm rich. Oh my God, I'm poor."

Jim Donovan:

"I'm not so rich."

Jillian Michaels:

Right? And the next day you're like, "I'm going to be homeless." No, but all seriousness, yeah, that's kind of what we're up to as a company and myself as an entrepreneur and Jillian Michaels the fitness personality, these are the things that I've been focused on.

Jim Donovan:

It feels to me like there's this surge of good, healthy stuff happening here in the states. People are, more than ever, seeking out these things. There are a zillion different products that you can buy and apps and all the different things, but I kind of feel like...

Jim Donovan:

So I live in Western Pennsylvania, it's nothing like California. But even here, it just seems like an uptick in these kind of health-related products and things appearing in the grocery that were never, ever there, like riced cauliflower.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah, [inaudible 00:05:49].

Jim Donovan:

What's going on? Is there something bubbling under that you think is happening?

Jillian Michaels:

Look, the reality is 7 out of 10 Americans are still, and I hate to use the term 'overweight', but the reality is overweight and then on medications for being overweight.

Jim Donovan:

Right. Yep.

Jillian Michaels:

And having all of the obesity-related... Forgive me, I'm temporarily renting on a highway.

Jim Donovan:

Oh, it's okay.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:06:16] at the beach.

Jim Donovan:

It's flavor.

Jillian Michaels:

It's beautiful but there's sirens going by. So it's like, that's still very much a reality of our culture. And by the way, people that are "skinny" also get very sick from eating garbage, right?

Jim Donovan:

Right. Totally.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:06:33]. When you eat even more of that garbage, you're going to get sicker quicker. But then conversely, you do have people that are using, I would say, the events of the past year and change as a catalyst-

Jim Donovan:

Yep.

Jillian Michaels:

... To make healthy transformations in their lives, whether it's giving up soda or having the cauliflower rice instead of the white rice in a box. All these little steps really make a big difference over time.

Jillian Michaels:

So while I think we as a society really do still have a long way to go, I will take every win along the way.

Jim Donovan:

Absolutely. And I like the word 'catalyst' because I know that these past two years have been just, for a lot of folks, just a smack in the head, right? Just over and over and over and over again, consistent smacks in the head.

Jim Donovan:

And suffering for a lot of folks is off the charts. And I'm just feeling like in the last week, able to let myself get excited about things again. Not really feeling excited about too much for a while. My band and I, we've been practicing for the last couple of weeks. And I'm like, "Whoa, we can play again."

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah.

Jim Donovan:

"It's actually happening again. It's feeling good." I like the idea of the catalyst, where we use that really tough time and sort of boomerang ourselves out of it maybe.

Jillian Michaels:

I think we have to. You listen to or you read the work of great minds like Viktor Frankl, who was one of the fathers of modern-day psychotherapy and he wrote this great book called Man's Search for Meaning.

Jim Donovan:

I'm writing that down.

Jillian Michaels:

He was a survivor of the Holocaust, right?

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And he talked about how he survived it and how those who did survive it, survived it, and they gave it a meaning. And they, in doing so, were able to transmute great loss, great pain, great suffering into wisdom, depth, empathy, new solutions, a new way forward.

Jillian Michaels:

And I can give you a million examples of people that do that and come out of great tragedy every single day. One of my favorite examples is, you would probably know, John Walsh, who started America's Most Wanted and he lost his son, horribly. His son was kidnapped and killed and he started [crosstalk 00:09:06].

Jim Donovan:

[inaudible 00:09:06]

Jillian Michaels:

And it was the longest running show on Fox. And he put away more bad guys, I don't even remember the statistics but it was insane. It's like, do you know how many people he saved probably from horrible fates by putting away really bad people?

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

So I think, look, if there's an extreme thing where someone can overcome a loss of a child, I try to give myself perspective and go, "All right, come on, Jill, you have it so great compared to everybody else. Shut up and find a meaning."

Jillian Michaels:

And then the people that are really getting hit with this, I would still say the same, give it a purpose and a meaning, and allow yourself to be hopeful.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

Because what choice do you have? It's really scary to be hopeful because we're afraid, right?

Jim Donovan:

Sure.

Jillian Michaels:

To get attached and then be let down. But the reality is that we really don't have a choice except to focus on what's good and continue to forge a path forward.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, what it reminds me of is it's the mindset thing where...

Jillian Michaels:

Yes.

Jim Donovan:

It's one of the things that we... We don't have a lot of say over a lot of things in life, but it's the one thing that I've learned for myself that I do have some say over, and that's how I think about things, it's how I deliberately decide to react to things.

Jillian Michaels:

Yes.

Jim Donovan:

I went through a crazy health thing a couple of years ago. I had septic shock and five surgeries and ICU and three near-deaths, crazy stuff. But because of the work I've done through my life on myself, I was able to be cognizant enough to remind myself in the depths of the most pain that, "Dude, this isn't happening to you. You're not a victim of this. It's just happening."

Jillian Michaels:

That's a very tough place to be, though.

Jim Donovan:

Oh, God. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

We do get hammered by life and bad things happen to really good people. But being able to be proactive about that and try to find that bigger meaning, that bigger way forward, and not allow it to victimize you, it's not easy.

Jim Donovan:

No.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:11:27] it is the only choice for meaning, purpose, and progress.

Jim Donovan:

You're right. I found that all I could do was to remind myself that I only had one job during the toughest time, and that was just to get through this one part. Get through this, whatever that is, and then when the next thing comes, then you get through that.

Jillian Michaels:

I love that. [inaudible 00:11:51], right? One bite at a time. [crosstalk 00:11:55]

Jim Donovan:

One bite at a time.

Jillian Michaels:

Exactly. It's so smart.

Jim Donovan:

And I think using the last year, the energy and maybe some of the sorrow of the last year as that catalyst, not to... I don't think we need to rush out and change every aspect of life. I'm not sure that that's helpful or sustainable, but to maybe take things chunk by chunk.

Jim Donovan:

Just like you would at the very beginning of working out when you haven't worked out for a long time. If you're like, "All right, I'm going to do 1,000 reps of these. I'm going to feel really bad tomorrow and I'm going to be in too much pain to work out the next day."

Jillian Michaels:

100 percent. That's like that old school notion of the learning zone, right?

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

It's like: crawl, then stand, then walk, then jog, then run, then sprint, then hill sprint. But you got be within the zone where it's attainable.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

And your setbacks aren't debilitating. That's that learning zone where you set yourself up for success and then you gradually build upon that.

Jim Donovan:

How did you get there? Was there ever a time where you weren't so damn fit? You're a freaking machine.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:13:02]. For sure. When I was a kid, I was overweight and utilized food as a coping mechanism for loneliness and control and deprivation.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

I was given the right support at the right time with the right information, and over the course of years, I began to wrap my head around it, I began to have these small successes in martial arts that made me believe I was capable, made me believe that I was strong and resilient, made me care more about my health, rebuilt my self-image.

Jillian Michaels:

So I had support at a time when I didn't believe in myself. I believed in the person who believed in me.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

So therefore [inaudible 00:13:58] bridge. And I was given the tools so that when I did take action, it would yield more powerful and positive results. And when there were failures, I was taught the mindset to see them as learning opportunities, but it took years. I would say probably three years from 13, 14, 15.

Jillian Michaels:

By the time I was 16, I kind of had it. I didn't understand about food, nutrition like I do now. But I was fit, I was exercising, I cared, it mattered to me, and I think the worst parts were behind me.

Jim Donovan:

And that's interesting that you mention the support when you need it, because when I... My wife and I, we would watch you on Biggest Loser with people. It's exactly what you would do for folks.

Jim Donovan:

You have this cool balance of, "Wow, she might kill me here," and "But she really does actually care about me." Right? There's that cool line. I love that, I love that, the hard but then like, "No, but I really do care about you here."

Jillian Michaels:

People see what is their internal reality, right? They don't necessarily see what's actually happening. We pick up what the story is in our brain.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

In some cases, you're a hero. In some cases, you're a villain. But I can only tell you quite literally what I was doing.

Jillian Michaels:

So, for me, on The Biggest Loser, you're dealing with a life-or-death intervention that exists on a ticking clock.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

There's no reality, right, outside of reality television where that's a thing. People have months, years to work on this. But when somebody can go home in seven days, you're thinking about, "All right, what are the essential benchmarks we've got to hit in order for them to have any, any shot, any hope whatsoever of maintaining progress?"

Jillian Michaels:

And as much as people love to bash the show like, "They gained their weight back," 95% of the people who lose weight outside of The Biggest Loser gain it back because it's deeper than understanding food and fitness, right?

Jim Donovan:

Totally.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:16:15] it's often an emotional crutch. And by the way, 65% of them gained it back. We had a really high success rate. 35% of them kept it off, which is unheard off in the general world of wellness.

Jim Donovan:

Totally. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:16:30] that said, my goal for them was, "All right, I need them to have a rock bottom moment where the pain of how they've been living is greater than the fear and the pain of the changes that need to be made."

Jillian Michaels:

I need them to have a success, one that shatters this notion of, "This is who I am and this who I'm capable of." Right? Like, "I'm the funny, fat..." whatever. Everybody has a story that they bring to the table, and you need to shatter that identity that isn't serving them, because you can't believe in a reality that doesn't exist.

Jillian Michaels:

So now you're like, "Look at you. You just ran a mile. You're that guy now. You just did a pull-up. You're that guy now."

Jim Donovan:

Totally.

Jillian Michaels:

And in recreating the potential of their physical strength, it opens up this infinite possibility of, "What else am I capable of if I was so wrong about my limitations here?"

Jillian Michaels:

So when you would see, it's like this intense kind of like [inaudible 00:17:31]. And by the way, I didn't do that with every contestant. It just happened to make television because it was good TV.

Jim Donovan:

Sure.

Jillian Michaels:

But I sometimes would utilize fear to circumvent their story of, "I can't do it, I can't do it." And I was like, "Get on, I swear to God, or I will send you home. I don't even care." [inaudible 00:17:51]

Jim Donovan:

It's the exclamation point on this point.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:17:57] I'm like, "Baby, really?" The bottom line is I needed them to have the achievement.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

And I knew they could do it. So what you were seeing was a belief in their ability, you were able to pick that up. Because I was like, "You can do it. I'm not going to sit here and be like, 'Oh, poor what was you. You're so weak and sad and sorry. Just take the stairs.'" You saw a belief in them that I had.

Jim Donovan:

Yes.

Jillian Michaels:

You were able to interpret that. And then you saw them succeed, and then the result of it. But other people, they're going to be like, "Oh my God, she's this horrible person who hates fat people," which is ridiculous. But nevertheless, you see what you want to see.

Jim Donovan:

That's a good point.

Jillian Michaels:

But you were able to see a lot more of what was actually going on.

Jim Donovan:

We have the advantage of getting just to watch the snapshot of your life and these little interactions that are caught on camera and then edited down for TV to make it good TV.

Jillian Michaels:

[crosstalk 00:18:49]. Nobody would see the 11 days that would go into one episode, right?

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

Non-stop. And then you would get like five minutes of content. So I do have to admit that when you get one piece of a thousand-piece puzzle, it could be a beautiful day at the beach and you just see blue and you're like, "It's a blue puzzle."

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

They're missing so many pieces. But the fact that you were able to pick that up, yeah, you're right, it says so much about your empathy, if you will.

Jim Donovan:

Past that, Jillian, there's other clues in your life that you care about people. You've dedicated all of your life to it, where you're doing things... I mean, 100 million DVDs that you've sold and nine books about fitness and numerous TV shows, and now you've got one of the top apps in the world.

Jim Donovan:

And you're continuously trying to build it. So yeah, of course, we're making a living, we all need to do that. I have the app, I use the app. It is super high quality. But you've dedicated tons and tons and tons of time and energy and thought and probably tears through the whole thing. What drives that ship? I'm interested to hear.

Jillian Michaels:

Honestly, I would love to tell you it's altruism. It's just personal passion. I write about what I'm interested in.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

So it has to do with my ex when she had our son and we got so much misinformation about everything from prenatal vitamins to prenatal fitness. I was like, "This is complete bullshit. Someone needs to write the new book here." [inaudible 00:20:37]

Jim Donovan:

Right. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And then I got like five different doctors to come together from all different aspects and specialties that would be relevant, whether it was pediatricians or OB/GYNs or endocrinologists and pregnancy fitness specialists. I was living it, so I was passionate about it.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah. Sure.

Jillian Michaels:

Wondering what makes somebody age like JLo and what makes somebody fall apart at 31. What's going on there? I want to understand. What's going on in these blue zones? What is it that makes somebody climb Everest at 80 and then another person die of a massive heart attack at 30? What's going on?

Jillian Michaels:

So this is stuff that just interests me. And then I get to do what I love and learn these things for selfish reasons and have access to amazing specialists in all fields of wellness. I'm so lucky.

Jillian Michaels:

If I want to understand microbiome, I can get in touch with the top gastroenterologist in clinical research to explain it to me. And then it's so exciting to me that I'm like, "Oh my God, look at all this cool stuff I learned." There's very little altruism in it.

Jillian Michaels:

And I will say that it is really an honor to be able to play some small part in someone's journey. I was going through Instagram comments yesterday and this woman was saying how she had come back from breast cancer and she's like, "You don't know, but we did it together."

Jillian Michaels:

I'm honored to be a part of it, but I'm not some sort of hero. I made a workout because I think it's cool and I think it works and that I get to make money doing what I love. So if anything, it's the opposite. It's actually selfish.

Jillian Michaels:

And when you do what you love, I think that's your greatest contribution to the world, very much like what you do.

Jim Donovan:

I think maybe what you could take more credit for, if I might be so bold to say, is that you built something over a long period of time at a high quality. And by doing that, you've opened up all these other doors where you have access to all these people because of the work that you've done.

Jim Donovan:

And then because of that work, you get a message from a lady who works out with you to heal up from breast cancer. And all of those things come, I think, just from a direct intention and then relentless freaking action over and over and over and over again.

Jim Donovan:

I looked through your history and I watched you on TV and we've been doing this new stuff together, but it's consistent, it's a beautiful thing to see. And that kind of a model is an inspiring model, whether you want to call yourself a hero or not I don't even think is important.

Jillian Michaels:

Aww, thank you [inaudible 00:23:44] Jim.

Jim Donovan:

I don't think it's important. I think what's important is that you've decided to take action for a lifetime.

Jillian Michaels:

You know it's funny, this is going to sound so ridiculous, it's such a bizarre analogy. Cryptocurrency, right, is actually, in the majority of cases of crypto, a technology.

Jim Donovan:

Yep.

Jillian Michaels:

And a lot of people don't understand it. But there's a guy named Charles Hoskinson who was one of the founders of Ethereum, split off from Ethereum several years ago to create a technology called Cardano.

Jim Donovan:

Okay.

Jillian Michaels:

And this is a masterful piece of work, right? This guy has spent years recruiting the greatest minds from all over the world in tech, and his goal is to be able to help somebody in Ethiopia get a loan to build their business, because there's no credit system there. Right?

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

The guy's a [crosstalk 00:24:40], he's a genius, the technology is incredible. And then you've got... He gets in this fight with Mark Cuban, who knows nothing, truly, honestly, about this space, all transparency, not at all.

Jim Donovan:

Okay.

Jillian Michaels:

And Mark Cuban backs something called Dogecoin, which is complete shit. It's absolute garbage, there's no tech. It started as [inaudible 00:25:03] crypto. And to me, I'm like... You have this masterful piece of technology that could change the world in the most amazing ways, and you back Dogecoin.

Jillian Michaels:

So, for me, I've always wanted my work to be Cardano. I wanted you to read my book and have it change your life, because maybe it changed mine, not because I'm some hero. It's just, I want the Cardano, right? I want the solution that's going to help you get where you want to go.

Jillian Michaels:

So I want to talk to the best medical minds in all areas of... Whether it's talking to Dr. William Li about how foods can shut off the blood vessels that feed tumors and cancer cells.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

Or talking to Dr. Sabine Hazan about how to restore your microbiome and potentially prevent Alzheimer's. These things to me are miracles that human minds are figuring out. That's why I'm like, "Who's the best?" Right?

Jillian Michaels:

"Who's the best at helping people fall asleep? Who's the best at helping them relax? Jim Donovan, look at this guy's [inaudible 00:26:14]. Holy cow. Let me try what this guy does. Oh my God, this works. I need that guy."

Jillian Michaels:

So to me, I'm just inspired by greatness, and then I have the luxury of recruiting these great people and disseminating the things that they say to people that read my books or utilize the app, if that makes any sense. That's why you're like, "Oh, but the quality." It's actually not me. It's me being able to recognize genius in other people, if that makes sense.

Jim Donovan:

That's a heck of a good skillset to have. I don't mean to be overly cheerleader here.

Jillian Michaels:

[crosstalk 00:26:54]

Jim Donovan:

That's not the intention. But I'm just-

Jillian Michaels:

All contributions greatly accepted.

Jim Donovan:

I get excited about it because I see that, whether you call it this or not, what's underneath of this is this want for people to suffer less. Otherwise, why share it? Why not just go lay on the beach and drink martinis and do your thing?

Jillian Michaels:

It pays my bills. I would tell you it pays my bills. Because I get to do what I love to pay my bills. Now, with that said in the future, I do make money from a lot of things outside of the Jillian Michaels brand.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

And so that's why it's like, I try to give away as much as I can, whether it's the podcast or videos on YouTube and blogs and Instagram where I try to explain everything. So you don't need to buy anything or purchase anything. I'll give you all the information.

Jillian Michaels:

Now, with that said, if you're like, "Yeah, I don't want to think about it, put it together for me," then you got the app. It's like I can watch all these videos on teaching my dog to walk on a leash, but I don't really have the bandwidth or the time so we got a dog trainer.

Jim Donovan:

Yes.

Jillian Michaels:

I will give you all that information but if you're like, "Actually, I don't want to think about it. You just do it for me. You program my workout, you tell me what to eat. And then I'm going to get results? Great." That's there too.

Jillian Michaels:

But as I've gotten to the point where, yeah, I make the majority of my money in other industries and I become more of an entrepreneur and a strategic investor, it does allow me to give a lot away. But why not?

Jim Donovan:

Why not?

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah.

Jim Donovan:

The need is great.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah. Why not? And all it does is allow people to go, "Oh, you know what? She's giving me all this away for free. I like that about her." And then maybe one day when you're like, "Oh, she likes that Alaya Naturals collagen, maybe I'll try it because I like that [inaudible 00:28:56]." There's a halo effect to all of it at the end of the day.

Jim Donovan:

Sure.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:28:58]

Jim Donovan:

Yeah. I think it's okay to take care of ourselves that way.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:29:06] where if you would have asked me in my 20s, "What's your idea of success?" I had this notion that... When you're young you're like, "I can change the world." And then as I got older I was like, "That's just an ego thing."

Jillian Michaels:

All I really want to do is try to get through this life with as much meaning as possible and give my kids... Because I'm like, "All right, where can I have an actual impact?" Is really try to give my kids the best hope and shot at having a meaningful and purpose-filled life.

Jillian Michaels:

But that notion that I could have a greater impact. If I can save one person from going over a waterfall, fantastic. But I find that the one obligation I do have is to contribute my best self to the world, we all have that. And that's your greatest contribution.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And if that helps people while you're doing your thing and living your best life, because it really does, as much as we tend to judge it. Right? There's a stigma of being selfish. But any individual we ever found inspirational was selfish, focused on becoming their best self, and then blazed that trail for other people to do so and follow in their footsteps.

Jillian Michaels:

So in a way, I think that is... At this point I'm like, "That's how you change the world, is by being your best you." Right? It's Gandhi, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Jim Donovan:

Are you at the point now where you feel like you still have to get somewhere?

Jillian Michaels:

God, that's so funny. I would've told you yes. And sure, there are things I would like to achieve, without fail. I continue to feel passionate about growing The Fitness App, but only because I'm excited to bring new people to use a platform I have built to introduce fresh talent.

Jillian Michaels:

That's exciting to me, and I get to make money off of it, so fantastic. But I don't have this like, "It has to be number one."

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

I find that, that grit and that grind doesn't actually serve me anymore. It makes me focus on the wrong things, if that makes any sense. So if I had a goal right now-

Jim Donovan:

It does.

Jillian Michaels:

... It would be to enjoy every day and allow that to naturally... The cream rises.

Jim Donovan:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jillian Michaels:

My goal is like, "All right, I'm passionate about this. I'll add that individual. I want that individual on the platform." As opposed to, "How do I make this app the number one?" That stopped working for me a while ago.

Jillian Michaels:

So that is my primary focus, is how do I try to find fulfillment, purpose, meaning, passion, in every day. That's my goal.

Jim Donovan:

It's weird because when you focus on that part, then you end up, as a result, helping more people.

Jillian Michaels:

Right? Yeah.

Jim Donovan:

It's such a cool thing.

Jillian Michaels:

It's this, what is that? A virtuous cycle, if you will, instead of a vicious cycle.

Jim Donovan:

Ah, the virtuous cycle.

Jillian Michaels:

Right.

Jim Donovan:

Oh, I like that. I've never heard that. That's great.

Jillian Michaels:

Virtuous cycle instead of a vicious one.

Jim Donovan:

A virtuous cycle. I've experienced plenty of vicious cycles.

Jillian Michaels:

Me too.

Jim Donovan:

Wow. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

Couple of relationships back in my 20s. Whoa, boy.

Jim Donovan:

That's a whole other show. That's a whole other show. We can have one of those if you want someday.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my goodness. Yeah, that would be a dark show, Jim.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah, a real dark show. I'll put the black wall on for that one. Blood red maybe.

Jillian Michaels:

Exactly. Exactly. You'd have to do like the Joe Rogan and Elon Musk and get really stoned for that episode. [inaudible 00:33:13]

Jim Donovan:

Oh, good Lord. Hey, so for my listeners, they have actually not heard anything about what you and I are doing together.

Jillian Michaels:

What?

Jim Donovan:

Well, I was waiting for this, I was waiting for this moment actually.

Jillian Michaels:

What?

Jim Donovan:

To tell people so that we could do it together.

Jillian Michaels:

Okay.

Jim Donovan:

Would you like to tell people a little about what we're doing?

Jillian Michaels:

Yes. Okay, I would. Yeah, I would. So I, as we were discussing, had the Jillian Michaels Fitness App and really wanted to build out The Fitness App. And it began with adding new trainers, right? With specialties, not just a bunch of random trainers.

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

It's like, "Who's the best in prenatal fitness? Oh, Taylor Walker Sinning, I need her. Who's the best in self-care fitness? Oh, Jamie McFadden, let's get her." Right?

Jillian Michaels:

So it started there. And then, of course, I already work with a bunch of different registered dieticians. So it was like, "All right, who can create the best vegan meal plan? Oh, who can create the best..." Even though I don't believe in keto, people still want it. So it's like, "Who can do that? Oh, Josh Axe. Let's get him to create."

Jillian Michaels:

So I got some of the best registered dieticians and different doctors to come in and create a variety of meal plans and recipes. And there was like 10 different kinds of meal plans, it's all customizable, and it's a one-stop shop. Right?

Jillian Michaels:

So you can literally go and say, "I don't want any peanuts. I want to lose weight. I need to cook for 10. I'm cooking for only meat and I..." It's completely 100%, "I'm gluten-free. I don't want eggs." Whatever you want, the algorithm can customize it.

Jim Donovan:

That's amazing.

Jillian Michaels:

So I was really excited about that. And then I was like, "Wait a second, I'm going to all these different apps and watching all these different things for self-care, meditation, and mindfulness. We've got to add this medium to the platform."

Jillian Michaels:

Because again, you shouldn't need... It's starting to become, "Oh, I got to have Hulu, I got to have Netflix, I got to have HBO Max. Oh, no." Now you got a cable subscription all over again.

Jim Donovan:

Yep.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:35:19]. It's like, "Oh, I need a tracker and then I need a food one and then I need a fitness one, I got to have a yoga fitness one." It started to get ridiculous. I was like, "I need a mindfulness one." So that was the next category of branching out.

Jillian Michaels:

So we put a few test ones up on the website and the top search was sleep. So I was like, "Okay, who's the dude? Or the girl." Right? I was open.

Jim Donovan:

The dudette.

Jillian Michaels:

I was like, yeah, "Who's the homie that's awesome at this?" And, of course, I came across you. Then I watched your TED Talk and then I tried your techniques and then I started learning more about you and I was like, "This guy is the guy. He's the dude."

Jillian Michaels:

So that's when we got you on the podcast to talk about it. And I was like, "All right, I need you on the platform. People need to be able to do these exercises with you, to relax, to release anxiety, to help them sleep better."

Jillian Michaels:

And like all the other individuals I mentioned, whether it was Dr. William Li helping to beat cancer or Dr. Sabine Hazan for fixing your gut health or Taylor Walker for pregnancy. You were my... I was like, "This is the dude." And immediately sought out to recruit you.

Jillian Michaels:

And now I am very pleased to say that you are... We feature... And I will say a handful because you can't get all Jim Donovan there, but it's a taste of. And then they can find the remainder of your content on all your platforms on The Fitness App.

Jillian Michaels:

How'd I do? It was a very long answer to get to the... But I wanted to make sure there was a natural evolution there.

Jim Donovan:

Well, I'm not trying not to blush too much. I really appreciate being lumped in with all these other great people. Thank you for that. I was excited when you got excited, when we were on the podcast.

Jim Donovan:

I saw you get excited and I'm like, "Oh, she's excited. Yeah, this could be a really good thing to do." And for those of you who haven't seen Jillian's app, it's phenomenal. What I brought to the table there, there's five different tracks. They are mostly interactive, where you do these things right at bedtime to help prepare your brain and your body for sleep.

Jim Donovan:

There's things that you do with rhythm, there's things that you do with creating really soft vocal sound. And it does something called vagus nerve stimulation, which helps to turn on your-

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:37:46]. Yeah. That's amazing.

Jim Donovan:

It's good stuff. It literally turns on your parasympathetic nervous system. And that's the system that needs to be engaged when you are attempting to fall asleep. So if you ever find yourself in those places where you're in racing thoughts, that tells you that the other side of your nervous system is more active, which is called your parasympathetic, and that's your stress response.

Jim Donovan:

So all of the tracks that I made for Jillian are designed to help you get out of the stress response quickly and prepare your brain for sleep so that you don't have to spend half an hour trying to fall asleep. You can just put these things on.

Jim Donovan:

And what's cool about them is that the more often you do them, you actually will train your brain to have a sleep cue, with whichever your favorite one is. And when you turn it on, your brain will automatically start to go, "Ah, it's sleep time because this is what happens every time."

Jillian Michaels:

Right.

Jim Donovan:

So that's what we're doing together. Very exciting.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:38:43]

Jim Donovan:

I'm totally geeked out about it. My mom is very geeked about it, as are my daughters, who by the way, my one daughter, Tupelo, I was reading a little bit about your story, she is a bartender now.

Jim Donovan:

And I told her today, she came home today, and I said, "You know Jillian Michaels was a bartender back in the day. Her and AOC, they were both bartenders."

Jillian Michaels:

Right. That's true. Oh my gosh. Tell her to watch... I don't know, she's probably so young she's never heard of it. Tell her to watch Cocktail with Tom Cruise.

Jim Donovan:

Oh. Okay.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my God.

Jim Donovan:

I remember that.

Jillian Michaels:

I was literally [inaudible 00:39:19].

Jim Donovan:

[inaudible 00:39:20]

Jillian Michaels:

Blowing fire, and it was just like, it was a ton of fun. That movie was, it was such a ridiculous, kind of cheesy [inaudible 00:39:30] movie of the... I want to say '90s almost.

Jim Donovan:

'90s, totally.

Jillian Michaels:

But it will make her a great bartender, if she's not already.

Jim Donovan:

Well, she loves it. She was telling me, she's like, "Dad, I don't have any bartender flare."

Jillian Michaels:

What?

Jim Donovan:

And I'm like, "What? What are you talking about?" [inaudible 00:39:51] whenever you spin the cups, and she said, "Every time I do it, I always drop them. But I found out that when I drop them, people love me more and they tip me better."

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:40:02]

Jim Donovan:

And I said, "Listen, why don't you just be the flareless bartender? Even if you're good at it. If you get good at it, stay flareless, because you'll make more money."

Jillian Michaels:

That's so, by the way, 2021. It's like people just want real.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

They don't want polished, they don't want perfection, they want authentic, and that's what she is.

Jim Donovan:

That's what she is.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh, never mind, don't watch Cocktail. Forget it.

Jim Donovan:

We're going to watch it tonight. We're going to turn that on. That sounds fun. Hey, I don't want to keep you too long here, but I was wondering about something. So I noticed that you rock some amazing band T-shirts every so often.

Jim Donovan:

I saw an Iron Maiden T-shirt one time that you were wearing.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:40:45]. Yeah. [inaudible 00:40:47]

Jim Donovan:

Is this fashion or is this like you really dig...

Jillian Michaels:

I grew up in the '90s, come on.

Jim Donovan:

All right.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:40:54] I was graduating high school. It was like, "Hush little baby, don't say a word." [inaudible 00:41:01] what I grew up with. In the '80s it was all punk rock. I grew up with The Kennedys and Black Flag and [inaudible 00:41:09].

Jim Donovan:

Oh, yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And then, of course, there was the hip-hop movement, which I was into but not as much. I was way more into punk and metal. And I liked N.W.A and Biggie and Tupac and all of that, but I really didn't get into it the way a lot of my peers did.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

They know everything about that whole group of Snoop Dogg. I liked it. I went to high school with Ice Cube. Didn't even realize [crosstalk 00:41:37].

Jim Donovan:

Oh, wow.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah. But that wasn't my... I just think my background was way more punk and then actual metal music like Maiden and Sabbath and all those guys.

Jim Donovan:

Nice.

Jillian Michaels:

And that's why today I have a hard time, I don't fully get it.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

I want to get it. [inaudible 00:42:07] I'm like, "I don't get it."

Jim Donovan:

I'm trying to get it.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:42:09] It's like, I want to get it, but I kind of don't get it. But my son recently started listening to Eminem, which I actually am like, "Thank God."

Jim Donovan:

Okay.

Jillian Michaels:

Then my daughter started listening to Amy Winehouse.

Jim Donovan:

Okay. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And I was like, "This is so crazy." All these little white women were listening to all of these like Aretha, you know what I mean?

Jim Donovan:

Right.

Jillian Michaels:

All of these like, Tina Turner, all these amazing voices and were inspired. And now I've got my daughter listening to [inaudible 00:42:38]. And to me, I'm like, "That's nice. It's a virtuous cycle. It sees no race, none of that." You know what I mean? Music transcends everything.

Jillian Michaels:

And that's what I've always loved so much about... I have no talent at it. But it really does. It's this universal language that transcends race, gender, all of that. I don't know. That's what I love so much. Another thing I love so much about what you do is that musicians really unite people.

Jim Donovan:

It's lovely. It's a lovely thing to be able to see... I can look out into a crowd, and especially if I'm near home, and I can pick out folks I know that if I had a conversation with them for too long, it might go the wrong way.

Jim Donovan:

But the fact that we're all enjoying the moment together, makes me realize that that's actually the important part of the lifetime right now. Our disagreements about things are really... If we think about it, they're really just illusion. Right? They really don't mean anything.

Jillian Michaels:

No. Who cares? It's the craziest thing, the things I see people fighting about. I'm like, "Who gives a shit?" And the weird part is that oftentimes people want the same things. That's the great irony. Everybody wants-

Jim Donovan:

A great irony.

Jillian Michaels:

... People to prosper. Everybody wants people to be healthy. Everybody wants good things to happen to good people. They just have a different set of ideas about how to get there.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

And it's so sad to see us tearing each other apart over differences of opinion. People losing friendships. It blows my mind, the state of the world right now, it's really scary. But I find that you can take two people with completely, diametrically opposing views and they will both sing along to the same song. You know what I mean?

Jim Donovan:

Totally. Totally. Yep. When you exercise, are you listening to music or are you a non music listener?

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my God. Music is scientific... You know this more than anyone. Music is one of the top motivators to increase the intensity and the duration of your workout. If I leave my headphones, I go home.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

If I get to the gym and forgot the headphones, I [inaudible 00:44:57].

Jim Donovan:

What's getting the most spins on your playlist? What gets played the most?

Jillian Michaels:

All right, I admit that when I go to the gym, I do listen to a lot of the EDM stuff. And I do appreciate it. I also was going to raves at 17, so I was listening to Rozalla, Everybody's Free (To Feel Good) at 17.

Jim Donovan:

[inaudible 00:45:20]

Jillian Michaels:

I do love the Diplos and the Guettas and the Afrojacks. And when I train, I really do like that music.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

Like Eric Prydz [inaudible 00:45:37]. I think they're genius. Just a different music for a different moment, if you will.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah. Totally.

Jillian Michaels:

But I do really appreciate that kind of music, which you'd never imagine, I guess, of me. But I listen to a lot of that.

Jim Donovan:

It's functional, right? It's not like we're not going to listen to it to get maybe some deep meaning but it's going to burn some calories off and keep us going.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah. I fly up that StairMaster.

Jim Donovan:

Absolutely.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah.

Jim Donovan:

Do you know the band Clutch? You ever hear of Clutch?

Jillian Michaels:

No.

Jim Donovan:

They're from D.C.

Jillian Michaels:

Uh-uh (negative). Are they awesome? I'll check them out.

Jim Donovan:

Oh, they're past awesome. I'll send you the record. If you like all that stuff that you talked about, Black Sabbath and all that, you need to know about Clutch. And you'll exercise to it. It's beautiful. Yeah.

Jillian Michaels:

All right. I'm going to check it out when we got off the freaking Zoom thing here.

Jim Donovan:

Yeah. You just have to watch if you're driving with it because you will just floor it all the time.

Jillian Michaels:

I already have that problem, so I'll really try to... Yeah, I'll try to be mindful.

Jim Donovan:

Well, let me just say one more time; everybody out there, go check out Jillian's app. Obviously, it's on every platform that you would find, I guess the app stores of the world.

Jillian Michaels:

Yeah. Every app store. It's just called The Fitness App. And yeah, you can find it anywhere you get apps. And it's usable on any platform, whether you're streaming it to your television or it's on your tablet, it's on your phone. Any place, anytime, anywhere.

Jillian Michaels:

And it's literally a one-stop shop for food, fitness, community, tracking, and now thanks to you, sleep and mindfulness, meditation.

Jim Donovan:

That's a beautiful thing. And I'll also encourage people, Jillian's completely serious about... She also gives away so much on her Instagram and her socials. Just go follow them, you'll be glad that you did.

Jim Donovan:

Her buddy, Jamie McFadden, she's also fantastic. She does similar things. You got a good, good team of people with you, Jillian. Thank you for letting me be a part of it. I appreciate it.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my gosh. Thank you for being a part of it. And I'm just so excited to see all the places we're going to go together, Jim. You just don't know it yet.

Jim Donovan:

I'm ready. I'm ready. My bags are packed.

Jillian Michaels:

You're like, "I got to get this bitch off of my tip." I'm like, "Yo, Jim, where can we get more stuff? Jim."

Jim Donovan:

It's good.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:48:07] I apologize. My dog is on [inaudible 00:48:11], I don't know what he's upset about.

Jim Donovan:

Maybe UPS.

Jillian Michaels:

[inaudible 00:48:17] totally fine. This is Cody.

Jim Donovan:

What's up, Cody? Good to see you.

Jillian Michaels:

Cody's just coming in to talk crypto with me now so [inaudible 00:48:30].

Jim Donovan:

Well, maybe since we've been talking, it went up.

Jillian Michaels:

Jim, I think it did rebound. Let me see where we're at. Yeah, yeah, we got [inaudible 00:48:41] $39,000 on Bitcoin. We could be doing better but it's better than 27. So every step in the right direction, we're going to take. [inaudible 00:48:52]

Jim Donovan:

We'll take it. Exactly. Hey, could you do me a favor and wave like this and look into the camera? So I'm going to take a picture of us, like a screenshot, and we'll smile at everybody. Thank you for that. Yeah. Jillian, thank you so much, it's been a complete blast to get to do this with you and hope that we get to do it again sometime, and can't wait to see you in person sometime too.

Jillian Michaels:

Oh my God, it is my pleasure. Thank you. And we will connect soon. As soon as I get to Miami and get situated, I'm going to come back at you for round two soon. [inaudible 00:49:26]

Jim Donovan:

Beautiful. Yeah, right on. Bring it on. And Miami is not so far from me so that would be easy.

Jillian Michaels:

Perfect. [inaudible 00:49:33]

Jim Donovan:

Awesome.

Jillian Michaels:

Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Jim Donovan:

You too, Jillian. Be well. Much love.

Jim Donovan:

Well, that's it for today's show. Thank you so much for joining us. And I'm wondering if you would do us a quick favor and follow, rate, and review the show. When you do that, it really helps us to spread the word.

Jim Donovan:

Also, come and visit us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Just search 'Jim Donovan Sound Health'. Before you go, I want to let you know about a resource that I made for you, especially if you've been suffering from things like anxiety and stress, mood problems, brain fog and racing thoughts, sleeplessness, low energy, and even chronic pain.

Jim Donovan:

I've put together a full collection of easy-to-follow tutorials and audio tools that use the power of sound to help you feel better every day, guaranteed. I call it the Donovan Healing Circle. And it's kind of like having your own digital medicine cabinet full of sound supplements.

Jim Donovan:

When you become a subscriber, you'll receive unlimited access to an entire suite of easy-to-follow tutorials, audio tools, research reports, plus my brand new ebook Whole Life Sound Healing. Just visit donovanhealth.com to get started, that's donovanhealth.com. I hope you have a great day, and take care.

Podcast: Jillian Michaels - The Catalyst of Challenge

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